On Page 20 of They Say I Say, Graff says “Therefore, when it comes to constructing an argument (whether orally or in writing), we offer you the following advice: remember that you are entering a conversation and therefore need to start with ‘what others are saying,’ as the title of this chapter recommends, and then introduce your own ideas as a response”. I find this very important when writing my own essay and works. Mainly because I can sometimes rant for a long time on a certain subject and no include other views or takes on the subject. This is a very important component of writing because readers may sometimes like different views on topics when it’s a controversial subject. Engaging with other opinions can lead to a more balanced and informative piece. So, I have to start putting in action the practicing putting others opinions before my own when writing and giving my takes. This approach not only enriches my writing but also makes it more persuasive and relatable to my audience. This shift in my writing approach could ultimately enhance my credibility as a writer and encourage more thoughtful responses from my audience.
“Writers need to indicate clearly not only what their thesis is but also what larger conversation that thesis is responding to” p. 20 para 2. Think about the bigger picture when writing-I feel like that may be a common issue.
“…we suggest that you summarize what they say as soon as you can in your text and remind readers of it at strategic points as your text unfolds.” p. 21 para 1. This is just a good point to remember
“…It can be one that you yourself once held or one that you are ambivalent about.” p. 24 para 3. I had never thought about “they say” being my past self…
“Sometimes you’ll want to open by summarizing a debate with two or more views.” p. 25 para 5. I just think this section as a whole will be helpful during the next paper.
“In other words, even when presenting your own claims, you should keep returning to the motivating “they say.”” p. 28 para 1. This is a good reminder.
There are many reminders I find helpful such as “remember that you are entering a conversation and therefore need to start with “what others are saying,” as the title of this chapter recommends, and then introduce your own ideas as a response.” (TS/IS 20). This is helpful reminder when trying to construct and argument. I also read “Of course, there are many other powerful ways to begin. Instead of opening with someone else’s views, you could start with an illustrative quotation, a revealing fact or statistic, or—as we do in this chapter—a relevant anecdote. If you choose one of these formats, however, be sure that it in some way illustrates the view you’re addressing or leads you to that view directly, with a minimum of steps.” (TS/IS 22). Struggling to find a way to open a paragraph this is a helpful tip.
Framing The Conversation: This chapter Highlights what writers must position themselves within an ongoing conversation. This make the act of writing a response or argument much more dynamic. This is good because it encourages writers to see their arguments not in isolation but as part of a bigger dialogue. Engaging with others ideas helps frame one’s argument and provides a context that can make it more persuasive
Templates for responding: One of the most practical aspects of this chapter is the introduction of templates for responding to what others say. These templates serves as useful starting points, especially for writers who may struggle with structuring their responses. The “They say” and “ I Say” templates are helpful because they show how to smoothly transition from summarizing other viewpoints to presenting one’s own.
Understanding and Respecting Opposing views: The emphasis on representing other people’s arguments before introducing one’s own is both insightful and important. This practice demonstrates respect for differing perspectives and strengthens a writers credibility. Finally it allows for more nuanced and informed response, rather than one that might dismiss opposing viewpoints outright
The Role of Agreement, Disagreement, and Something in Between: The chapter also explores the idea that one does not always have to agree or disagree with another’s argument. Instead, the option to agree and disagree simultaneously, or to find a middle ground, opens up more complex and interesting discussions. This flexibility allows writers to develop a more sophisticated response
“that to give writing the most important thing of all – namely, a point – writers need to indicate clearly not only what their thesis is but also what larger conversation that thesis is responding to.” (pg 20). I find this really important to remember. I like the reminder to tell the readers about what “they say.” Something else I find helpful is, “remember that you are entering a conversation and therefore need to start with “what others are saying,” as the title of this chapter recommends, and the introduce your own ideas as a response.” (pg 20-21). I think this is something good to keep in mind. It is also good information to remember to summarize the “they say” as soon as possible. The templates provided in previous chapters have really helped me before so I know that the templates in this chapter will be helpful in the future for upcoming projects assigned, as well.
I found a lot of things helpful and intersecting in this chapter. One good point was they said ” unsure why he felt the need to say what he was saying”pg20. to me this is saying like don’t drop a quote and leave like you have to explain yourself with everything so your readers know why you picked that important line to go in your essay and why is it so important to you. Another thing I found intersecting was order because if you have your events lined up wrong in order and have different things everywhere your readers aren’t gonna understand your story and your gonna lose them and there not gonna read your essay.
In this chapter i found very helpful when it said, “remember that you are entering a conversation and therefore need to start with “what others are saying”” (Graff and Birkenstein 20) I enjoy how they related it to a conversation, it helped me understand it better. I also find the templates on pages 23 through 28 very helpful. They start off with templates for introducing what “they say”, continuing with templates for introducing “standard views”, making what “they say” something you say, something implied or assumed, and ongoing debates. I always find templates very helpful as i believe they can be the perfect starting point to get your ideas on paper.
In this chapter of They say, I say “Starting with What Others Say” there are several things that stand out to me. One of these being the line “remember that you are entering a conversation, and therefore need to start with “what others are saying”. I found It to be an important reminder that our writing isn’t just supposed to be our own ideas right away and that our ideas should only come after we construct the argument. I also think that all of the different templates this chapter gives us are helpful ideas to look back on when we need inspiration for ways to introduce something.
I liked how on pages 20-21 they talked about how there must be a balanced amount of what they say vs what you say on the topic. This is very important because you can’t have too much or too little of either one. I also liked the idea on page 25 that mentioned you could summarize a point that is implied. I think this is a very sophisticated way to write and to dig deeper into the text.
In this chapter of They say, I say “Starting with What Others Say” there are several things that stand out to me.
One of the most prominent quotes that I will reference as a writer was “…It can be one that you yourself once held or one that you are ambivalent about.” p. 24 para 3. When writing it is sometimes difficult to work past the I say portion and really consider who “they” are and what “they” can bring to the table. In following this theme of considering the opposing view, I find this next quote important to remember to tell the readers about what “they say”, this is as follows “that to give writing the most important thing of all – namely, a point – writers need to indicate clearly not only what their thesis is but also what larger conversation that thesis is responding to.” p 20 para 2. Ultimately, engaging with others ideas can significantly aid in framing one’s argument and provides a context that can make it more persuasive and informative.
With the use of formatting techniques and templates it helps to keep your point on track in an organized way. This chapter introduced new templates for introducing what others say, standard views, and many more. I found it helpful to learn about the importance of giving your audience a background on why you’re arguing, what you’re arguing and why it matters. The advice given from this chapter was that “writers need to indicate clearly not only what their thesis is but also what larger conversation that thesis is responding to” (Graff & Birkeinstien 20). By giving the audience a good background it allows them to understand, leading them to be engaged. To keep people engaged in understanding it’s important to always circle back to your main point after your claims as it should provide “evidence” or reasoning behind why you’re saying what you’re saying or trying to argue.
I thought it was interesting that the chapter revolves around the idea that you need more than just to recite another’s work and (the opposite) more than just your own opinion. You need to maintain a good balance between what “they say” and what “you say”. The book says that your writing needs a point, a clear motivation, so that your audience understands what they are reading as well as why. Doing this, not only provides the reader with context but also demonstrates your awareness of other perspectives on the topic which can benefit your argument. The book also mentions the importance of returning to the original motivating “they say” in order to keep the reader engaged and keep your words responses instead of just words on a page.
12 thoughts on “JOURNAL # 12”
Jaidin Fuentes
Journal #12
On Page 20 of They Say I Say, Graff says “Therefore, when it comes to constructing an argument (whether orally or in writing), we offer you the following advice: remember that you are entering a conversation and therefore need to start with ‘what others are saying,’ as the title of this chapter recommends, and then introduce your own ideas as a response”. I find this very important when writing my own essay and works. Mainly because I can sometimes rant for a long time on a certain subject and no include other views or takes on the subject. This is a very important component of writing because readers may sometimes like different views on topics when it’s a controversial subject. Engaging with other opinions can lead to a more balanced and informative piece. So, I have to start putting in action the practicing putting others opinions before my own when writing and giving my takes. This approach not only enriches my writing but also makes it more persuasive and relatable to my audience. This shift in my writing approach could ultimately enhance my credibility as a writer and encourage more thoughtful responses from my audience.
“Writers need to indicate clearly not only what their thesis is but also what larger conversation that thesis is responding to” p. 20 para 2. Think about the bigger picture when writing-I feel like that may be a common issue.
“…we suggest that you summarize what they say as soon as you can in your text and remind readers of it at strategic points as your text unfolds.” p. 21 para 1. This is just a good point to remember
“…It can be one that you yourself once held or one that you are ambivalent about.” p. 24 para 3. I had never thought about “they say” being my past self…
“Sometimes you’ll want to open by summarizing a debate with two or more views.” p. 25 para 5. I just think this section as a whole will be helpful during the next paper.
“In other words, even when presenting your own claims, you should keep returning to the motivating “they say.”” p. 28 para 1. This is a good reminder.
There are many reminders I find helpful such as “remember that you are entering a conversation and therefore need to start with “what others are saying,” as the title of this chapter recommends, and then introduce your own ideas as a response.” (TS/IS 20). This is helpful reminder when trying to construct and argument. I also read “Of course, there are many other powerful ways to begin. Instead of opening with someone else’s views, you could start with an illustrative quotation, a revealing fact or statistic, or—as we do in this chapter—a relevant anecdote. If you choose one of these formats, however, be sure that it in some way illustrates the view you’re addressing or leads you to that view directly, with a minimum of steps.” (TS/IS 22). Struggling to find a way to open a paragraph this is a helpful tip.
Framing The Conversation: This chapter Highlights what writers must position themselves within an ongoing conversation. This make the act of writing a response or argument much more dynamic. This is good because it encourages writers to see their arguments not in isolation but as part of a bigger dialogue. Engaging with others ideas helps frame one’s argument and provides a context that can make it more persuasive
Templates for responding: One of the most practical aspects of this chapter is the introduction of templates for responding to what others say. These templates serves as useful starting points, especially for writers who may struggle with structuring their responses. The “They say” and “ I Say” templates are helpful because they show how to smoothly transition from summarizing other viewpoints to presenting one’s own.
Understanding and Respecting Opposing views: The emphasis on representing other people’s arguments before introducing one’s own is both insightful and important. This practice demonstrates respect for differing perspectives and strengthens a writers credibility. Finally it allows for more nuanced and informed response, rather than one that might dismiss opposing viewpoints outright
The Role of Agreement, Disagreement, and Something in Between: The chapter also explores the idea that one does not always have to agree or disagree with another’s argument. Instead, the option to agree and disagree simultaneously, or to find a middle ground, opens up more complex and interesting discussions. This flexibility allows writers to develop a more sophisticated response
“that to give writing the most important thing of all – namely, a point – writers need to indicate clearly not only what their thesis is but also what larger conversation that thesis is responding to.” (pg 20). I find this really important to remember. I like the reminder to tell the readers about what “they say.” Something else I find helpful is, “remember that you are entering a conversation and therefore need to start with “what others are saying,” as the title of this chapter recommends, and the introduce your own ideas as a response.” (pg 20-21). I think this is something good to keep in mind. It is also good information to remember to summarize the “they say” as soon as possible. The templates provided in previous chapters have really helped me before so I know that the templates in this chapter will be helpful in the future for upcoming projects assigned, as well.
I found a lot of things helpful and intersecting in this chapter. One good point was they said ” unsure why he felt the need to say what he was saying”pg20. to me this is saying like don’t drop a quote and leave like you have to explain yourself with everything so your readers know why you picked that important line to go in your essay and why is it so important to you. Another thing I found intersecting was order because if you have your events lined up wrong in order and have different things everywhere your readers aren’t gonna understand your story and your gonna lose them and there not gonna read your essay.
In this chapter i found very helpful when it said, “remember that you are entering a conversation and therefore need to start with “what others are saying”” (Graff and Birkenstein 20) I enjoy how they related it to a conversation, it helped me understand it better. I also find the templates on pages 23 through 28 very helpful. They start off with templates for introducing what “they say”, continuing with templates for introducing “standard views”, making what “they say” something you say, something implied or assumed, and ongoing debates. I always find templates very helpful as i believe they can be the perfect starting point to get your ideas on paper.
In this chapter of They say, I say “Starting with What Others Say” there are several things that stand out to me. One of these being the line “remember that you are entering a conversation, and therefore need to start with “what others are saying”. I found It to be an important reminder that our writing isn’t just supposed to be our own ideas right away and that our ideas should only come after we construct the argument. I also think that all of the different templates this chapter gives us are helpful ideas to look back on when we need inspiration for ways to introduce something.
I liked how on pages 20-21 they talked about how there must be a balanced amount of what they say vs what you say on the topic. This is very important because you can’t have too much or too little of either one. I also liked the idea on page 25 that mentioned you could summarize a point that is implied. I think this is a very sophisticated way to write and to dig deeper into the text.
In this chapter of They say, I say “Starting with What Others Say” there are several things that stand out to me.
One of the most prominent quotes that I will reference as a writer was “…It can be one that you yourself once held or one that you are ambivalent about.” p. 24 para 3. When writing it is sometimes difficult to work past the I say portion and really consider who “they” are and what “they” can bring to the table. In following this theme of considering the opposing view, I find this next quote important to remember to tell the readers about what “they say”, this is as follows “that to give writing the most important thing of all – namely, a point – writers need to indicate clearly not only what their thesis is but also what larger conversation that thesis is responding to.” p 20 para 2. Ultimately, engaging with others ideas can significantly aid in framing one’s argument and provides a context that can make it more persuasive and informative.
With the use of formatting techniques and templates it helps to keep your point on track in an organized way. This chapter introduced new templates for introducing what others say, standard views, and many more. I found it helpful to learn about the importance of giving your audience a background on why you’re arguing, what you’re arguing and why it matters. The advice given from this chapter was that “writers need to indicate clearly not only what their thesis is but also what larger conversation that thesis is responding to” (Graff & Birkeinstien 20). By giving the audience a good background it allows them to understand, leading them to be engaged. To keep people engaged in understanding it’s important to always circle back to your main point after your claims as it should provide “evidence” or reasoning behind why you’re saying what you’re saying or trying to argue.
I thought it was interesting that the chapter revolves around the idea that you need more than just to recite another’s work and (the opposite) more than just your own opinion. You need to maintain a good balance between what “they say” and what “you say”. The book says that your writing needs a point, a clear motivation, so that your audience understands what they are reading as well as why. Doing this, not only provides the reader with context but also demonstrates your awareness of other perspectives on the topic which can benefit your argument. The book also mentions the importance of returning to the original motivating “they say” in order to keep the reader engaged and keep your words responses instead of just words on a page.